% Slope and Skins
 

There are probably a number of variables involved (skis, weight, snow,
etc), but in general, at what % slope should one begin to need skins
to climb with waxless BC skis?

Thx.

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In article ,
Jelso wrote:
There are probably a number of variables involved (skis, weight, snow,
etc), but in general, at what % slope should one begin to need skins
to climb with waxless BC skis?


_ There is no useful answer to this since it is so entirely
dependant on conditions and the particular waxless base on your
skis. I've had to use kicker skins on nearly flat ground when
it's icy. I think the only reasonable answer is to give an upper
limit on which you absolutely will need skins regardless of the
conditions.

_ A rough rule of thumb is that if it's steep enough that
you're using a climbing bail or wire to elevate your heels,
then you probably need at least kicker skins if not full
ones. I'd guess that's somewhere in the 15 degree range.

_ I've found that with waxless skis, all I ever need is
kicker skins, but then again I'm not fond of going straight
up at the steepest angle possible. Kicker skins are so light
that I take them everywhere regardless. You can also get a
fairly significant variation in climbing ablity by moving
them up/down the ski. I find that putting them on the tail
of a waxless ski generates the most climbing power.

_ Booker C. Bense


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_ There is no useful answer to this since it is so entirely
dependant on conditions and the particular waxless base on your
skis.

The skill of the operator also make a big difference. Along with
how hard you are willing to lean on your poles.

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lac.stanford.edu wrote:

_ I've found that with waxless skis, all I ever need is
kicker skins, but then again I'm not fond of going straight
up at the steepest angle possible. Kicker skins are so light
that I take them everywhere regardless. You can also get a
fairly significant variation in climbing ablity by moving
them up/down the ski. I find that putting them on the tail
of a waxless ski generates the most climbing power.

Booker,

may i ask you the favour, to explain to me, what *KICKER*skins are? What
does them distinguish from what i consider "regular" skins?

Background: I got a pair of fjelltelemark skis (i think that's what you
call backcountry skis - mine are BD Polarstar wax modell with Rottefella
3-pin plus climbing support) - to be able to go around with our dog ... :-)

Thanks in advance,

Ulrich
--
reply to: uhausmannATbluemailDOTch

"Ulrich Hausmann" wrote in message
...
lac.stanford.edu wrote:

_ I've found that with waxless skis, all I ever need is
kicker skins, but then again I'm not fond of going straight
up at the steepest angle possible. Kicker skins are so light
that I take them everywhere regardless. You can also get a
fairly significant variation in climbing ablity by moving
them up/down the ski. I find that putting them on the tail
of a waxless ski generates the most climbing power.

Booker,

may i ask you the favour, to explain to me, what *KICKER*skins are? What
does them distinguish from what i consider "regular" skins?

Background: I got a pair of fjelltelemark skis (i think that's what you
call backcountry skis - mine are BD Polarstar wax modell with Rottefella
3-pin plus climbing support) - to be able to go around with our dog ...
:-)

Ulrich take a look at the following for a description:

http://www.bdel.com/gear/backcountry/kicker_skins.php

(Basically they just cover a small portion of the ski.)

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In article ,
Ulrich Hausmann wrote:
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Jan.15.04@telemark. slac.stanford.edu wrote:

_ I've found that with waxless skis, all I ever need is
kicker skins, but then again I'm not fond of going straight
up at the steepest angle possible. Kicker skins are so light
that I take them everywhere regardless. You can also get a
fairly significant variation in climbing ablity by moving
them up/down the ski. I find that putting them on the tail
of a waxless ski generates the most climbing power.

Booker,

may i ask you the favour, to explain to me, what *KICKER*skins are? What
does them distinguish from what i consider "regular" skins?

_ See the previously posted BD url. Basically, they are 1/3
length skins with a metal plate and strap on the front.


Background: I got a pair of fjelltelemark skis (i think that's what you
call backcountry skis - mine are BD Polarstar wax modell with Rottefella
3-pin plus climbing support) - to be able to go around with our dog ... :-)


_ Keep those around, they are very nice skis. Kicker skins don't
compare well with waxing, but glide better than full skins and
can be useful on those days when waxing is difficult. Depending
on the snow conditions and how much camber your skis have, you
can kick and glide a little with kicker skins. However, for just
shuffling around in the woods they are fine and you can live with
keeping them on in rolling terrain. They are the only skin I can
put on without taking my skis off.

_ Booker C. Bense



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In article ,
Ulrich Hausmann wrote:

may i ask you the favour, to explain to me, what *KICKER*skins are? What
does them distinguish from what i consider "regular" skins?

Kicker skins are much shorter than "regular" skins. They're good for
"kick-and-glide" skiing on rolling terrain, but they won't climb
nearly as steeply as full-length skins.

If you have a lot of terrain with shallow climbs, kicker skins will
be more efficient:

http://www.bdel.com/gear/backcountry/kicker_skins.php

I've often said on a tour "I wish I had some kicker skis", but I've
never carried any. Maybe one of these days.

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/ski/

lac.stanford.edu wrote:
In article ,
Jelso wrote:
There are probably a number of variables involved (skis, weight, snow,
etc), but in general, at what % slope should one begin to need skins
to climb with waxless BC skis?


_ There is no useful answer to this since it is so entirely
dependant on conditions and the particular waxless base on your
skis. I've had to use kicker skins on nearly flat ground when
it's icy. I think the only reasonable answer is to give an upper
limit on which you absolutely will need skins regardless of the
conditions.

Taking that into consideration, 10%.

-klaus

Thanks to you and all, who replied!

lac.stanford.edu wrote:

_ See the previously posted BD url. Basically, they are 1/3
length skins with a metal plate and strap on the front.

Where would you put them under the ski? The waxing zone (= under the
feet), i presume ... (?) That, at least, would be the idea for me.

[...] However, for just
shuffling around in the woods they are fine and you can live with
keeping them on in rolling terrain. They are the only skin I can
put on without taking my skis off.

Yes, that's exactly, what i've in mind to do with that skis. As for
ascending "real" mountains i use a "real" ski with Easy-Go adapter (very
nice, IMHO. Tried it a little bit in Norway this christmas).

Greetings,

Ulrich



--
reply to: uhausmannATbluemailDOTch

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:31:51 -0800, Terry Morse
wrote:

In article ,
Ulrich Hausmann wrote:

may i ask you the favour, to explain to me, what *KICKER*skins are? What
does them distinguish from what i consider "regular" skins?

Kicker skins are much shorter than "regular" skins. They're good for
"kick-and-glide" skiing on rolling terrain, but they won't climb
nearly as steeply as full-length skins.

The "kick" or "kicker" zone is roughly where the pattern is on waxless
skis, or where the kicker wax goes for us trad types, a few inches in
front of your toes to a few inches behind your heels.

With a double camber ski, this is the part still above the snow when
evenly weighted, which gets pressed down when you "kick" the ski and
weight it more than 1/2 bodyweight. It only grips (waxed or waxless)
when you press it down, otherwise it glides.

If you have a lot of terrain with shallow climbs, kicker skins will
be more efficient:

http://www.bdel.com/gear/backcountry/kicker_skins.php

I've often said on a tour "I wish I had some kicker skis", but I've
never carried any. Maybe one of these days.

They are lighter the full skins, and a bit easier to deal with. A
compromise for in-between conditions, like instep crampons.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom