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Ed Miller April 21st 10 11:52 PM

interval training question
 
Here is a question I've had for some time, maybe someone can answer: In doing maximum intensity intervals of say 3 minutes I start with a heart rate of around 110 or 120 and struggle mightely to bring my heart rate up to 175 or 180 in just 3 minutes, so that only a fraction of the 3 minutes is actually spent at goal. (my maximum ht rate is 186) Naturally after I'm at the third or fourth interval its a bit easier but still only a part of what I'm counting as the 3 minutes is spent near maximum heart rate. Is this correct or should one be spending the whole 3 minutes at goal and not even count the time leading up to it?

MT Nordic April 22nd 10 12:54 PM

interval training question
 
On Apr 21, 5:52*pm, Ed Miller wrote:
Here is a question I've had for some time, maybe someone can answer: In
doing maximum intensity intervals of say 3 minutes I start with a heart
rate of around 110 or 120 and struggle mightely to bring my heart rate
up to 175 or 180 in just 3 minutes, so that only a fraction of the 3
minutes is actually spent at goal. (my maximum ht rate is 186)
Naturally after I'm at the third or fourth interval its a bit easier
but still only a part of what I'm counting as the 3 minutes is spent
near maximum heart rate. Is this correct or should one be spending the
whole 3 minutes at goal and not even count the time leading up to it?

--
Ed Miller


Often with shorter VO2 max type intervals you need to rely more on you
RPE (rate of perceived exertion) than on your true HR. HR is more
important for LT (lactate threshold) intervals, because they are a
little longer and you're trying to target a fairly narrow HR range. I
usually only do 90 sec to 2 min max intensity intervals, because I
find that longer than that and I'm not really performing VO2 max work
(I'm holding back just a bit, not actually training VO2 max). Also,
full recovery between intervals is important in these workouts,
because you're not training your recovery speed (That's an LT
workout), you're training your VO2 max. Cheers.

[email protected] April 22nd 10 03:10 PM

interval training question
 
On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 00:52:40 +0100
Ed Miller wrote:


Here is a question I've had for some time, maybe someone can answer:
In doing maximum intensity intervals of say 3 minutes I start with a
heart rate of around 110 or 120 and struggle mightely to bring my
heart rate up to 175 or 180 in just 3 minutes, so that only a
fraction of the 3 minutes is actually spent at goal. (my maximum ht
rate is 186) Naturally after I'm at the third or fourth interval its
a bit easier but still only a part of what I'm counting as the 3
minutes is spent near maximum heart rate. Is this correct or should
one be spending the whole 3 minutes at goal and not even count the
time leading up to it?


I agree with MT Nordic and have some questions, if you don't mind: what
are your goals in doing level 94-96% of max intervals in general and at
this time of the year? How old are you? What is your lactate or
anaerobic threshold?

Gene

Anders April 23rd 10 06:07 AM

interval training question
 
On Apr 22, 6:10*pm, wrote:

I agree with MT Nordic and have some questions, if you don't mind: what
are your goals in doing level 94-96% of max intervals in general and at
this time of the year? How old are you? *What is your lactate or
anaerobic threshold?


Me three.

IMHO those who "must" do max intervals also "need" a coach. For
everyone else, it is probably better to stick to a suitably adjusted
dose of the Norwegian medicine, i.e. those 4 x 4 min (3 min active
recovery) where HR *at the end of the first rep and towards the end of
the next reps* is somewhere between 90% and 95% HRmax and where the
general idea is to do the last meters of the last rep as fast as the
first one.

I believe there is some value in "going for the max" occasionally, but
for most folks that would be maybe once a month in for instance in a
single uphill rep that is just long enough to reach the max - or in a
sprint against your favourite "enemy" in a local AG race:-)


Anders


[email protected] April 23rd 10 06:00 PM

interval training question
 
The Norwegian Olympic Committee's Top Performance Group put out a book
about endurance training several years ago. I have a couple of PDFs
that Torbjorn Karlsen circulated summarizing it, one of which has a
table showing workout levels 1-8 (yes 8, 6-8 being purely anaerobic
and of short total duration, and primarily used in other sports).
Here's a sample - and remember these are for elite or developing elite
younger athletes in athletic training schools (and individuals will
vary a bit):

Level % of VO2max % of max HR Lactate (mmol/l) Total Duration
5 94-100 92-97 6.0-10.0 15-30 min
4 85-94 87-92 4.0-6.0 30-50 min
3 80-87 82-97 2.5-4.0 50-90 min
2 65-80 72-82 1.5-2.5 1-3 hrs
1 45-65 55-72 0.8-1.5 1-6 hrs

Note that about 4.0 mmol/l is usually used as the lactate (or
approx. anaerobic) threshhold.

Gene


On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 23:07:57 -0700 (PDT)
Anders wrote:

On Apr 22, 6:10*pm, wrote:

I agree with MT Nordic and have some questions, if you don't mind:
what are your goals in doing level 94-96% of max intervals in
general and at this time of the year? How old are you? *What is
your lactate or anaerobic threshold?


Me three.

IMHO those who "must" do max intervals also "need" a coach. For
everyone else, it is probably better to stick to a suitably adjusted
dose of the Norwegian medicine, i.e. those 4 x 4 min (3 min active
recovery) where HR *at the end of the first rep and towards the end of
the next reps* is somewhere between 90% and 95% HRmax and where the
general idea is to do the last meters of the last rep as fast as the
first one.

I believe there is some value in "going for the max" occasionally, but
for most folks that would be maybe once a month in for instance in a
single uphill rep that is just long enough to reach the max - or in a
sprint against your favourite "enemy" in a local AG race:-)


Anders


Terje Mathisen[_2_] April 23rd 10 06:26 PM

interval training question
 
wrote:
The Norwegian Olympic Committee's Top Performance Group put out a book
about endurance training several years ago. I have a couple of PDFs
that Torbjorn Karlsen circulated summarizing it, one of which has a
table showing workout levels 1-8 (yes 8, 6-8 being purely anaerobic
and of short total duration, and primarily used in other sports).
Here's a sample - and remember these are for elite or developing elite
younger athletes in athletic training schools (and individuals will
vary a bit):

Level % of VO2max % of max HR Lactate (mmol/l) Total Duration
5 94-100 92-97 6.0-10.0 15-30 min
4 85-94 87-92 4.0-6.0 30-50 min
3 80-87 82-97 2.5-4.0 50-90 min
2 65-80 72-82 1.5-2.5 1-3 hrs
1 45-65 55-72 0.8-1.5 1-6 hrs

Note that about 4.0 mmol/l is usually used as the lactate (or
approx. anaerobic) threshhold.


I don't know exactly why, but there's obviously some sort of (strong!)
training effect he

The norwegian international/world cup orienteering team can typically
run for an hour in the forest at 90-93% of Max HR, i.e. the top end of
level 4 above.

Personally I have done 80-minute competitions at 90% of max, and 25-30
min at 93-94%, but only while orienteering, which I've been doing
competitively for 40+ years.

Plain running or skiing results in a significantly lower average heart
rate at the same psychological effort level, i.e. "run or ski as fast as
I can for as long as possible".

Terje
--
- Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

[email protected] April 23rd 10 09:37 PM

interval training question
 
On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 20:26:20 +0200
Terje Mathisen "terje.mathisen at tmsw.no" wrote:

wrote:
The Norwegian Olympic Committee's Top Performance Group put out a
book about endurance training several years ago. I have a couple
of PDFs that Torbjorn Karlsen circulated summarizing it, one of
which has a table showing workout levels 1-8 (yes 8, 6-8 being
purely anaerobic and of short total duration, and primarily used in
other sports). Here's a sample - and remember these are for elite
or developing elite younger athletes in athletic training schools
(and individuals will vary a bit):


Level % of VO2max % of max HR Lactate (mmol/l) Total Duration
5 94-100 92-97 6.0-10.0 15-30 min
4 85-94 87-92 4.0-6.0 30-50 min
3 80-87 82-97 2.5-4.0 50-90 min
2 65-80 72-82 1.5-2.5 1-3 hrs
1 45-65 55-72 0.8-1.5 1-6 hrs


I don't know exactly why, but there's obviously some sort of
(strong!) training effect he

The norwegian international/world cup orienteering team can typically
run for an hour in the forest at 90-93% of Max HR, i.e. the top end
of level 4 above.

Personally I have done 80-minute competitions at 90% of max, and
25-30 min at 93-94%, but only while orienteering, which I've been
doing competitively for 40+ years.

Plain running or skiing results in a significantly lower average
heart rate at the same psychological effort level, i.e. "run or ski
as fast as I can for as long as possible".


With training, the HR at which 4.0 mmol/l is reached rises and the
HR/lactate curve beyond that becomes less steep. That allows greater
time to be spent at level 4. I have a ~60 yr old friend, definitely a
middle of the packer or further back, who trains a lot and skis long
races in the low 90%s, while me, with an "Olympic level" VO2max (age
adjusted), average more in the mid to upper 80%s. There definitely
seems to be genetic/metabolic differences that way, in addition to
differences by training and type of activity, as you mention.

Gene


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