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-   -   Can I set my own bindings? (http://www.skibanter.com/showthread.php?t=15101)

Suanne Lippman February 13th 07 08:12 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
I just bought a pair of Fischer skis and bindings over the internet for my
wife. (actually everyone local was out of stock for the year!)
The system is such that mounting the bindings and setting them for the boot
size is pretty foolproof. She is a very conservative skier, so setting the
adjustments at the very bottom of the scale (4) like her old skis should be
fine.
I am able to pop the boots out with what seems like a reasonable amount of
force

Is there any compelling reason to have an "expert" check this over; are
brand new binding likely to be really far off? If it were for me I wouldn't
worry about it, but I would hate to see someone else get hurt because I
would spring for a prudent expense.

Thanks.



JQ February 13th 07 08:19 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 

"Suanne Lippman" wrote in message
...
I just bought a pair of Fischer skis and bindings over the internet for my
wife. (actually everyone local was out of stock for the year!)
The system is such that mounting the bindings and setting them for the
boot size is pretty foolproof. She is a very conservative skier, so
setting the adjustments at the very bottom of the scale (4) like her old
skis should be fine.
I am able to pop the boots out with what seems like a reasonable amount of
force

Is there any compelling reason to have an "expert" check this over; are
brand new binding likely to be really far off? If it were for me I
wouldn't worry about it, but I would hate to see someone else get hurt
because I would spring for a prudent expense.

Thanks.

Is she worth the $25 or so dollars that it would cost to have a professional
do it or not?

JQ
Dancing on the edge



Norm February 13th 07 08:31 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 

"Suanne Lippman" wrote in message
...
I just bought a pair of Fischer skis and bindings over the internet for my
wife. (actually everyone local was out of stock for the year!)
The system is such that mounting the bindings and setting them for the
boot size is pretty foolproof. She is a very conservative skier, so
setting the adjustments at the very bottom of the scale (4) like her old
skis should be fine.
I am able to pop the boots out with what seems like a reasonable amount of
force

Is there any compelling reason to have an "expert" check this over; are
brand new binding likely to be really far off? If it were for me I
wouldn't worry about it, but I would hate to see someone else get hurt
because I would spring for a prudent expense.

Thanks.


What JQ said. Its cheap, why wouldn't you just get it done right?
Chances are the bindings will be just fine if you do what you described.
But for $25, why **** around? Its her legs you'r gambling with. You bet
right you gain $25, you bet wrong, you have a painful and extremely
inconvenient if not disabling injury.



Walt February 13th 07 09:08 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
Norm wrote:
"Suanne Lippman" wrote in message
...
I just bought a pair of Fischer skis and bindings over the internet for my
wife. (actually everyone local was out of stock for the year!)
The system is such that mounting the bindings and setting them for the
boot size is pretty foolproof. She is a very conservative skier, so
setting the adjustments at the very bottom of the scale (4) like her old
skis should be fine.
I am able to pop the boots out with what seems like a reasonable amount of
force

Is there any compelling reason to have an "expert" check this over; are
brand new binding likely to be really far off? If it were for me I
wouldn't worry about it, but I would hate to see someone else get hurt
because I would spring for a prudent expense.


What JQ said. Its cheap, why wouldn't you just get it done right?
Chances are the bindings will be just fine if you do what you described.
But for $25, why **** around? Its her legs you'r gambling with. You bet
right you gain $25, you bet wrong, you have a painful and extremely
inconvenient if not disabling injury.


What JQ and Norm said. Although when I had my bindings adjusted,
inspected & tested early this season it was only $15 and took all of ten
minutes. Depends on where you go, I suppose.

Sure, you can put the bindings on the skis and set the DIN yourself. As
you say, it's pretty foolproof (and far easier than it used to be). But
can you *test* the release functionality? I mean *really* test it,
where the release occurs at X newton-meters of torque within an
acceptable tolerance, not some vague "seems like a reasonable amount of
force"? Unless you have some calibrated torque test gear, the answer is
probably "no".

Take them to a qualified tech. Don't be a cheapskate.

//Walt

alf February 13th 07 09:22 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
Walt wrote:


What JQ and Norm said. Although when I had my bindings adjusted,
inspected & tested early this season it was only $15 and took all of ten
minutes. Depends on where you go, I suppose.


I would only add to go to some specialized ski shop. I left my son's
skies at Sport Authority chain and they were suppose to adjust/test
bindings just for $15. When I came to pick them up the bindings and
paperwork indicated two different numbers for one ski. They just tried
to play it out and finally the service gay change the setting to match
the paperwork to cover up his ... ugly.

Other ski-only shops would charge $35 or $60 or so. I was told it is
worth to do at least once when bindings are new - a few % of them does
not hold to specs. Afterwards, once checked it is quite safe to adjust
them on your own.

A.

Walt February 13th 07 10:24 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
alf wrote:
Walt wrote:

What JQ and Norm said. Although when I had my bindings adjusted,
inspected & tested early this season it was only $15 and took all of
ten minutes. Depends on where you go, I suppose.


I would only add to go to some specialized ski shop. I left my son's
skies at Sport Authority chain and they were suppose to adjust/test
bindings just for $15. When I came to pick them up the bindings and
paperwork indicated two different numbers for one ski. They just tried
to play it out and finally the service gay change the setting to match
the paperwork to cover up his ... ugly.


Yeah, like tattoos, haircuts, and appendectomies, you don't want to do
it yourself and you don't want to go to the cheapest guy in town.

I took mine to the demo center of the "best" ski hill in the state. I
was surprised it was only $15, but I didn't balk.


Other ski-only shops would charge $35 or $60 or so.


$60 for a release check? Does that include complementary Champaign and
a shoe shine while you're waiting?


I was told it is
worth to do at least once when bindings are new - a few % of them does
not hold to specs. Afterwards, once checked it is quite safe to adjust
them on your own.


You were told wrong.

You have to adjust them when new to fit your boots and you also have to
adjust them whenever you change boots. You should not try this
yourself unless you know how to adjust the forward pressure (aka
pre-load) - it's important to the release functionality and if you get
this wrong the DIN is meaningless.

I don't recommend changing your DIN away from the standard, but going up
or down a DIN point is an adjustment you can make yourself. If that's
what you mean by adjusting them on your own, then you're half right..

Standard advice is to get them serviced once a year, or whenever you
change boots. You can probably stretch this out to a couple years if
you're feeling lucky.

//walt

alf February 13th 07 10:48 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
Walt wrote:
alf wrote:

Walt wrote:


$60 for a release check? Does that include complementary Champaign and
a shoe shine while you're waiting?


you right, it oncluded mounting ...


You were told wrong.

You have to adjust them when new to fit your boots and you also have to
adjust them whenever you change boots. You should not try this
yourself unless you know how to adjust the forward pressure (aka
pre-load) - it's important to the release functionality and if you get
this wrong the DIN is meaningless.


worth to know ... thx a lot ...

VtSkier February 13th 07 11:06 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
Suanne Lippman wrote:
I just bought a pair of Fischer skis and bindings over the internet for my
wife. (actually everyone local was out of stock for the year!)
The system is such that mounting the bindings and setting them for the boot
size is pretty foolproof. She is a very conservative skier, so setting the
adjustments at the very bottom of the scale (4) like her old skis should be
fine.
I am able to pop the boots out with what seems like a reasonable amount of
force

Is there any compelling reason to have an "expert" check this over; are
brand new binding likely to be really far off? If it were for me I wouldn't
worry about it, but I would hate to see someone else get hurt because I
would spring for a prudent expense.

Thanks.


Go ahead and use the bindings, but spring the 20 bucks
it will (should) be for a torque test and put your and
her mind at rest. Make the problem someone else's so you
don't get blamed if something goes wrong.

bumpfreaq February 14th 07 01:28 AM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
On Feb 13, 5:24 pm, Walt wrote:
alf wrote:
Walt wrote:


What JQ and Norm said. Although when I had my bindings adjusted,
inspected & tested early this season it was only $15 and took all of
ten minutes. Depends on where you go, I suppose.


I would only add to go to some specialized ski shop. I left my son's
skies at Sport Authority chain and they were suppose to adjust/test
bindings just for $15. When I came to pick them up the bindings and
paperwork indicated two different numbers for one ski. They just tried
to play it out and finally the service gay change the setting to match
the paperwork to cover up his ... ugly.


Yeah, like tattoos, haircuts, and appendectomies, you don't want to do
it yourself and you don't want to go to the cheapest guy in town.


Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair? I mean as long as I'm not
the cheapest guy in town........ wait, I guess I am the cheapest guy
in town.... what's wrong with that?

Chris
5 days

I took mine to the demo center of the "best" ski hill in the state. I
was surprised it was only $15, but I didn't balk.

Other ski-only shops would charge $35 or $60 or so.


$60 for a release check? Does that include complementary Champaign and
a shoe shine while you're waiting?

I was told it is
worth to do at least once when bindings are new - a few % of them does
not hold to specs. Afterwards, once checked it is quite safe to adjust
them on your own.


You were told wrong.

You have to adjust them when new to fit your boots and you also have to
adjust them whenever you change boots. You should not try this
yourself unless you know how to adjust the forward pressure (aka
pre-load) - it's important to the release functionality and if you get
this wrong the DIN is meaningless.

I don't recommend changing your DIN away from the standard, but going up
or down a DIN point is an adjustment you can make yourself. If that's
what you mean by adjusting them on your own, then you're half right..

Standard advice is to get them serviced once a year, or whenever you
change boots. You can probably stretch this out to a couple years if
you're feeling lucky.

//walt




Private February 14th 07 03:12 AM

Can I set my own bindings?
 

"Suanne Lippman" wrote in message
...
I just bought a pair of Fischer skis and bindings over the internet for my
wife. (actually everyone local was out of stock for the year!)
The system is such that mounting the bindings and setting them for the
boot size is pretty foolproof. She is a very conservative skier, so
setting the adjustments at the very bottom of the scale (4) like her old
skis should be fine.
I am able to pop the boots out with what seems like a reasonable amount of
force

Is there any compelling reason to have an "expert" check this over; are
brand new binding likely to be really far off? If it were for me I
wouldn't worry about it, but I would hate to see someone else get hurt
because I would spring for a prudent expense.

Thanks.


If you need to ask........then the answer is YES.

Small expense.........big consequences possible if incorrect.

Get it done (and yours) at the same time as a base grind or complete tune-up
if you do not do your own. Talk nice to the tech, or even better, bring
beer. You can definitely consider the beer as a prudent expense.



uglymoney February 14th 07 04:12 AM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:12:43 GMT, "Suanne Lippman"
wrote:

I just bought a pair of Fischer skis and bindings over the internet for my
wife. (actually everyone local was out of stock for the year!)
The system is such that mounting the bindings and setting them for the boot
size is pretty foolproof. She is a very conservative skier, so setting the
adjustments at the very bottom of the scale (4) like her old skis should be
fine.
I am able to pop the boots out with what seems like a reasonable amount of
force

Is there any compelling reason to have an "expert" check this over; are
brand new binding likely to be really far off? If it were for me I wouldn't
worry about it, but I would hate to see someone else get hurt because I
would spring for a prudent expense.


There is no compelling reason to have an expert check a brand new pair
of bindings unless you like wasting your time.

Set them yourself if your comfortable. I do all my own settings,
mountings, drilling, adjustments. DIN charts are available all over
the internet with a quick search - a ski shop will be using the exact
same formula's. Do a little research, and then do the bindings.
You'll be in a better position to fix or adjust them on the fly down
the road.

Good luck.

nate



MoonMan February 14th 07 10:14 AM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
VtSkier wrote:
Suanne Lippman wrote:
I just bought a pair of Fischer skis and bindings over the internet
for my wife. (actually everyone local was out of stock for the year!)
The system is such that mounting the bindings and setting them for
the boot size is pretty foolproof. She is a very conservative
skier, so setting the adjustments at the very bottom of the scale
(4) like her old skis should be fine.
I am able to pop the boots out with what seems like a reasonable
amount of force

Is there any compelling reason to have an "expert" check this over;
are brand new binding likely to be really far off? If it were for
me I wouldn't worry about it, but I would hate to see someone else
get hurt because I would spring for a prudent expense.

Thanks.


Go ahead and use the bindings, but spring the 20 bucks
it will (should) be for a torque test and put your and
her mind at rest. Make the problem someone else's so you
don't get blamed if something goes wrong.


I think I've asked this before, but I have never had a binding "torque
tested" to my knowledge, is this a purely North American thing like the
"Indemnity list"?


--

--
Chris *:-)



VtSkier February 14th 07 02:00 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
MoonMan wrote:
VtSkier wrote:
Suanne Lippman wrote:
I just bought a pair of Fischer skis and bindings over the internet
for my wife. (actually everyone local was out of stock for the year!)
The system is such that mounting the bindings and setting them for
the boot size is pretty foolproof. She is a very conservative
skier, so setting the adjustments at the very bottom of the scale
(4) like her old skis should be fine.
I am able to pop the boots out with what seems like a reasonable
amount of force

Is there any compelling reason to have an "expert" check this over;
are brand new binding likely to be really far off? If it were for
me I wouldn't worry about it, but I would hate to see someone else
get hurt because I would spring for a prudent expense.

Thanks.


Go ahead and use the bindings, but spring the 20 bucks
it will (should) be for a torque test and put your and
her mind at rest. Make the problem someone else's so you
don't get blamed if something goes wrong.


I think I've asked this before, but I have never had a binding "torque
tested" to my knowledge, is this a purely North American thing like the
"Indemnity list"?


A torque test is a measured (with equipment) release of
your bindings intended to assure that the boot/binding
system is releasing at the amount of force required for
the recommended DIN setting. In the US we test ALL bindings
mounted in a shop and test rental bindings at least once
a year after the initial setup. As for customer bindings,
once the initial setup is made, the customer needs to
request a test. If a shop is asked to adjust a binding
to a new boot for instance, they will insist on doing a
torque test at the same time. A good shop won't charge
if any part of the system has been bought from the shop.

Yes, I'm sure it's part of our litigious nature. However
much of the equipment nowadays used for testing comes
from Europe, and although the initial studies and testing
was done here (in Vermont actually), the standards are
European, so I'm sure you can have your bindings tested
in Europe if you want to.

Walt February 14th 07 02:20 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 13, 5:24 pm, Walt wrote:


Yeah, like tattoos, haircuts, and appendectomies, you don't want to do
it yourself and you don't want to go to the cheapest guy in town.


Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair?



Well, it seems like an unnecessary effort for one.

http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=381229&pid=363620&src=flash_slidetick er


//Walt

lal_truckee February 14th 07 04:22 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
Suanne Lippman wrote:

Is there any compelling reason to have an "expert" check this over;


Do you know where the forward pressure indicator is located, and how to
read it? (Completely different than the DIN indicator, and different for
every manufacturer and model, unlike DIN.)
Do you know there's no hidden manufacturing defect? That the DIN
indicator reading matches the actual torque for all release modes? That
all modes release?

Anyway, have fun. Bye.

lal_truckee February 14th 07 04:29 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
MoonMan wrote:

I think I've asked this before, but I have never had a binding "torque
tested" to my knowledge, is this a purely North American thing like the
"Indemnity list"?


You are kidding yourself if you think there's no European equivalent to
the "Indemnity list," which after all is just a manufacturer's list of
bindings they manufactured that they think are still safe and functional.

lal_truckee February 14th 07 04:52 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
uglymoney wrote:

There is no compelling reason to have an expert check a brand new pair
of bindings


It's perfectly possible to know where and how to use the forward
pressure indicator on your new bindings (although it still surprises me
how many people don't even know it exists) so I won't argue that point.

However, while the binding DIN indicator is supposed to directly
translate to a torque (it is of course the release torque that's
important, not the DIN reading) sometimes there's a manufacturing error
or merely a tolerance error that slips by the quality control. A small,
but real risk even with new bindings. With experience twisting or
levering out can tell you if there's a gross error but the torque and
DIN reading may still be off a lessor but still important difference.

For used bindings this becomes a major problem, for the mismatch between
DIN and torque can grow with time. One of the ways a binding can fail in
the shop is is the mismatch between DIN reading and torque becomes out
of tolerance (shop rats that I've good relations with have sometimes
officially paperwork failed a binding for this, then proceeded to set
the binding purely by torque readings - they're willing to do so since
they know me and my ski history.) Basically what this says is that
setting used bindings to a supposed torque by setting the DIN indicator
doesn't always get you what you expect.

A few years back someone published a table of binding DIN readings
versus actual torque for numerous aging bindings for all manufacturers
and numerous models. Interestingly there was a strong correlation to
manufacturer - Marker kept within tolerance by far the best. Since all
the current designs postdate that study there's no real reason to
mention which manufacturer's bindings diverged the most (and even the
Marker data is out of date.) Suffice to say their was (and I suspect
still is) in how bindings age AND for all the DIN reading drifted with
age. Another good reason to test older bindings.

bumpfreaq February 14th 07 05:18 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
On Feb 14, 9:20 am, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 13, 5:24 pm, Walt wrote:
Yeah, like tattoos, haircuts, and appendectomies, you don't want to do
it yourself and you don't want to go to the cheapest guy in town.


Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair?


Well, it seems like an unnecessary effort for one.

http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=381229&pid=363620&src=flash_slidet...

//Walt


Hooohooo! To the contrary, it's a necessary effort to cut lots and
lots of my hairs a few times a week in order to maintain that clean
and shiny look.

Chris
3 more days of work
4 more days 'til I'm driving west
5 more days 'til sliding down that slippery slope

And.... it's snowing in CO

SnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowSnowsnowsnowsn owsnowsnowsnowsnowsnow
Snowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowbeercheeseands now


Walt February 14th 07 05:41 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:20 am, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:


Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair?


Well, it seems like an unnecessary effort for one.

http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=381229&pid=363620&src=flash_slidet...


Hooohooo! To the contrary, it's a necessary effort to cut lots and
lots of my hairs a few times a week in order to maintain that clean
and shiny look.


Well, I've always advocated waxing and tuning at home rather than
leaving it to the pros. You get dispensation under that exception.

3 more days of work
4 more days 'til I'm driving west
5 more days 'til sliding down that slippery slope

And.... it's snowing in CO

SnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowSnowsnowsnowsn owsnowsnowsnowsnowsnow
Snowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowbeercheeseands now




//Walt

bumpfreaq February 14th 07 06:30 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
On Feb 14, 12:41 pm, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:20 am, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair?
Well, it seems like an unnecessary effort for one.


http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=381229&pid=363620&src=flash_slidet...

Hooohooo! To the contrary, it's a necessary effort to cut lots and
lots of my hairs a few times a week in order to maintain that clean
and shiny look.


Well, I've always advocated waxing and tuning at home rather than
leaving it to the pros. You get dispensation under that exception.

Excellent! I guess I'll be off to tune my head now.

Chris
3 more days of work
4 more days 'til I'm driving west
5 more days 'til sliding down that slippery slope


And.... it's snowing in CO


SnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowSnowsnowsnowsn owsnowsnowsnowsnowsnow
Snowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowbeercheeseands now


//Walt




VtSkier February 14th 07 06:31 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:20 am, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 13, 5:24 pm, Walt wrote:
Yeah, like tattoos, haircuts, and appendectomies, you don't want to do
it yourself and you don't want to go to the cheapest guy in town.
Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair?

Well, it seems like an unnecessary effort for one.

http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=381229&pid=363620&src=flash_slidet...

//Walt


Hooohooo! To the contrary, it's a necessary effort to cut lots and
lots of my hairs a few times a week in order to maintain that clean
and shiny look.

Chris
3 more days of work
4 more days 'til I'm driving west
5 more days 'til sliding down that slippery slope

And.... it's snowing in CO

SnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowSnowsnowsnowsn owsnowsnowsnowsnowsnow
Snowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowbeercheeseands now


Clearly a terminal case of short-timer syndrome.

bumpfreaq February 14th 07 07:35 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
On Feb 14, 1:31 pm, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:20 am, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 13, 5:24 pm, Walt wrote:
Yeah, like tattoos, haircuts, and appendectomies, you don't want to do
it yourself and you don't want to go to the cheapest guy in town.
Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair?
Well, it seems like an unnecessary effort for one.


http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=381229&pid=363620&src=flash_slidet...


//Walt


Hooohooo! To the contrary, it's a necessary effort to cut lots and
lots of my hairs a few times a week in order to maintain that clean
and shiny look.


Chris
3 more days of work
4 more days 'til I'm driving west
5 more days 'til sliding down that slippery slope


And.... it's snowing in CO


SnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowSnowsnowsnowsn owsnowsnowsnowsnowsnow
Snowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowbeercheeseands now


Clearly a terminal case of short-timer syndrome.


Short-timer?


jimbo February 15th 07 12:27 AM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses
the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check the
release torque, you might as well do it your self. I haven't seen any
rental shop that does anything more than set the DIN. In fact, I
haven't seen any retail stores that do anything more. I have seen only
one "expert" shop that used the device I mentioned.

Just my opinion, jimbo

Suanne Lippman wrote:
I just bought a pair of Fischer skis and bindings over the internet for my
wife. (actually everyone local was out of stock for the year!)
The system is such that mounting the bindings and setting them for the boot
size is pretty foolproof. She is a very conservative skier, so setting the
adjustments at the very bottom of the scale (4) like her old skis should be
fine.
I am able to pop the boots out with what seems like a reasonable amount of
force

Is there any compelling reason to have an "expert" check this over; are
brand new binding likely to be really far off? If it were for me I wouldn't
worry about it, but I would hate to see someone else get hurt because I
would spring for a prudent expense.

Thanks.



JQ February 15th 07 12:39 AM

Can I set my own bindings?
 

"jimbo" wrote in message
. ..
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses the
device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check the release
torque, you might as well do it your self. I haven't seen any rental shop
that does anything more than set the DIN. In fact, I haven't seen any
retail stores that do anything more. I have seen only one "expert" shop
that used the device I mentioned.

Just my opinion, jimbo

I seen a few places do the binding test at others I haven't because it was
done in a room that you have no access to.
The tool goes in side the boot and has a gauge similar to a torque wrench
but when the boot pops out it hold the reading.

I believe most shops have the tool but generally it is kept out of sight.

JQ
Dancing on the edge



Two Buddha February 15th 07 02:06 AM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
You ought to use my shop.
I brought a case of beer and four pairs of skis this year, all I needed was
a base grinds.
They checked the binders on each pair, for free, with that little torque
doohickey.
You gotta know how to treat a shop rat....

Two Buddha

Vail: Where skis never need to be tuned.

--
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from unsolicited email by Spam Alarm
from Dignity Software http://www.dignitysoftware.com
"jimbo" wrote in message
. ..
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses the
device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check the release
torque, you might as well do it your self. I haven't seen any rental shop
that does anything more than set the DIN. In fact, I haven't seen any
retail stores that do anything more. I have seen only one "expert" shop
that used the device I mentioned.

Just my opinion, jimbo

Suanne Lippman wrote:
I just bought a pair of Fischer skis and bindings over the internet for
my wife. (actually everyone local was out of stock for the year!)
The system is such that mounting the bindings and setting them for the
boot size is pretty foolproof. She is a very conservative skier, so
setting the adjustments at the very bottom of the scale (4) like her old
skis should be fine.
I am able to pop the boots out with what seems like a reasonable amount
of force

Is there any compelling reason to have an "expert" check this over; are
brand new binding likely to be really far off? If it were for me I
wouldn't worry about it, but I would hate to see someone else get hurt
because I would spring for a prudent expense.

Thanks.






----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
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The Real Bev February 15th 07 03:15 AM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
jimbo wrote:

Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses
the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check the
release torque, you might as well do it your self. I haven't seen any
rental shop that does anything more than set the DIN. In fact, I
haven't seen any retail stores that do anything more. I have seen only
one "expert" shop that used the device I mentioned.


I set my own bindings, but during a slow time I asked the tech at my
favorite hill a lot of questions, got a lot of useful information, and he
torque-tested my bindings for free. I put $5 in the tip jar and we parted
friends.

Yeah, I'd done it right.

--
Cheers,
Bev
---------------------------------------------------
Don't you just KNOW that there is more than one
Sierra Club member who is absolutely sure that the
dinosaurs died out because of something humans did?

The Real Bev February 15th 07 03:18 AM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
JQ wrote:

"jimbo" wrote:
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses the
device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check the release
torque, you might as well do it your self. I haven't seen any rental shop
that does anything more than set the DIN. In fact, I haven't seen any
retail stores that do anything more. I have seen only one "expert" shop
that used the device I mentioned.

Just my opinion, jimbo

I seen a few places do the binding test at others I haven't because it was
done in a room that you have no access to.
The tool goes in side the boot and has a gauge similar to a torque wrench
but when the boot pops out it hold the reading.

I believe most shops have the tool but generally it is kept out of sight.


It seems like it might not be all that difficult to make your own out of a
shoe tree and a torque wrench.

--
Cheers, Bev
*************************************************
Never argue with a woman holding a torque wrench.

VtSkier February 15th 07 01:31 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 1:31 pm, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:20 am, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 13, 5:24 pm, Walt wrote:
Yeah, like tattoos, haircuts, and appendectomies, you don't want to do
it yourself and you don't want to go to the cheapest guy in town.
Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair?
Well, it seems like an unnecessary effort for one.
http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=381229&pid=363620&src=flash_slidet...
//Walt
Hooohooo! To the contrary, it's a necessary effort to cut lots and
lots of my hairs a few times a week in order to maintain that clean
and shiny look.
Chris
3 more days of work
4 more days 'til I'm driving west
5 more days 'til sliding down that slippery slope
And.... it's snowing in CO
SnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowSnowsnowsnowsn owsnowsnowsnowsnowsnow
Snowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowbeercheeseands now

Clearly a terminal case of short-timer syndrome.


Short-timer?


You are so invested in getting out of where you are to go
on to the next thing that you are incapable of doing any
real work where you are now.

VtSkier February 15th 07 01:34 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
jimbo wrote:
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses the
device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check the
release torque, you might as well do it your self. I haven't seen any
rental shop that does anything more than set the DIN. In fact, I haven't
seen any retail stores that do anything more. I have seen only one
"expert" shop that used the device I mentioned.


If the "expert" doesn't use the release check device, don't pay him.

Just my opinion, jimbo

Suanne Lippman wrote:
I just bought a pair of Fischer skis and bindings over the internet
for my wife. (actually everyone local was out of stock for the year!)
The system is such that mounting the bindings and setting them for the
boot size is pretty foolproof. She is a very conservative skier, so
setting the adjustments at the very bottom of the scale (4) like her
old skis should be fine.
I am able to pop the boots out with what seems like a reasonable
amount of force

Is there any compelling reason to have an "expert" check this over;
are brand new binding likely to be really far off? If it were for me
I wouldn't worry about it, but I would hate to see someone else get
hurt because I would spring for a prudent expense.

Thanks.


VtSkier February 15th 07 01:44 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
The Real Bev wrote:
JQ wrote:

"jimbo" wrote:
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses
the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check
the release torque, you might as well do it your self. I haven't seen
any rental shop that does anything more than set the DIN. In fact, I
haven't seen any retail stores that do anything more. I have seen
only one "expert" shop that used the device I mentioned.

Just my opinion, jimbo

I seen a few places do the binding test at others I haven't because it
was done in a room that you have no access to.
The tool goes in side the boot and has a gauge similar to a torque
wrench but when the boot pops out it hold the reading.

I believe most shops have the tool but generally it is kept out of sight.


It seems like it might not be all that difficult to make your own out of
a shoe tree and a torque wrench.


That is essentially the Vermont Safety Research system.

1) you need to be able to read the torque wrench at the instant
of release. To do this, the VSR wrench has a little plastic
sliding thingy (technical term) that moves with the indicator
and stays put when the indicator pops back to zero. I don't
know if VSR puts the plastic thingy on the wrench or if the
wrench comes that way.

2) with those two items you can now test lateral release at
the toepiece.

3) to test forward release (more important IMO, because my
ONLY releases in the last 10 years were sticking my skis into
a mogul and having a double eject), you will need a "leg" for
the shoe tree. The torque settings depend on the length of
the "leg" and the leg has to be firmly attached to the boot.

To me this is the larger problem.

4) your torque wrench needs to be calibrated in newton-meters
(European standard) not foot-pounds (US standard). Not a
difficult problem, but will avoid a lot of math since the
tables for binding torque values are all listed in Newton-
meters.

Mary Malmros February 15th 07 02:11 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
jimbo wrote in
:

Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses
the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check the
release torque, you might as well do it your self. I haven't seen any
rental shop that does anything more than set the DIN. In fact, I
haven't seen any retail stores that do anything more. I have seen only
one "expert" shop that used the device I mentioned.


It's not THAT uncommon, is it? The Grind at Mount Snow has a Wintersteiger
that they test with -- I know because all instructors need to get their
gear checked out on this every year.

bumpfreaq February 15th 07 02:15 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
On Feb 15, 8:31 am, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 1:31 pm, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:20 am, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 13, 5:24 pm, Walt wrote:
Yeah, like tattoos, haircuts, and appendectomies, you don't want to do
it yourself and you don't want to go to the cheapest guy in town.
Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair?
Well, it seems like an unnecessary effort for one.
http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=381229&pid=363620&src=flash_slidet...
//Walt
Hooohooo! To the contrary, it's a necessary effort to cut lots and
lots of my hairs a few times a week in order to maintain that clean
and shiny look.
Chris
3 more days of work
4 more days 'til I'm driving west
5 more days 'til sliding down that slippery slope
And.... it's snowing in CO
SnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowSnowsnowsnowsn owsnowsnowsnowsnowsnow
Snowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowbeercheeseands now
Clearly a terminal case of short-timer syndrome.


Short-timer?


You are so invested in getting out of where you are to go
on to the next thing that you are incapable of doing any
real work where you are now.


Oh, short-timer..... I get it. But jeez I sure hope you don't really
know what you're talking about. I've been doing a ton of extra work
where I am now so that I won't be missed so much while I'm gone.

The "so invested" part is certainly on the money though.

Chris
2
3
4


Walt February 15th 07 02:36 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
VtSkier wrote:
jimbo wrote:


Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses
the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check the
release torque, you might as well do it your self.


If the "expert" doesn't use the release check device, don't pay him.


Right. But you won't find any shop in the US that will adjust a binding
without subsequently doing a release check.


I haven't seen any
rental shop that does anything more than set the DIN. In fact, I
haven't seen any retail stores that do anything more. I have seen only
one "expert" shop that used the device I mentioned.


Here's how it works with rental shops:

They spend many hours in the off-season putting each ski through the
release check device at various DIN settings to verify that the binding
is releasing properly. Then, when the hoards show up at the height of
the season, they can just set the DIN and hand out the skis. This saves
a lot of time on those busy holiday mornings. And that's why you've
never seen the rental counters put the skis on the release check device
- you'd need to visit in the fall when they're doing the prep work.

//Walt



VtSkier February 15th 07 04:14 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 15, 8:31 am, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 1:31 pm, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:20 am, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 13, 5:24 pm, Walt wrote:
Yeah, like tattoos, haircuts, and appendectomies, you don't want to do
it yourself and you don't want to go to the cheapest guy in town.
Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair?
Well, it seems like an unnecessary effort for one.
http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=381229&pid=363620&src=flash_slidet...
//Walt
Hooohooo! To the contrary, it's a necessary effort to cut lots and
lots of my hairs a few times a week in order to maintain that clean
and shiny look.
Chris
3 more days of work
4 more days 'til I'm driving west
5 more days 'til sliding down that slippery slope
And.... it's snowing in CO
SnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowSnowsnowsnowsn owsnowsnowsnowsnowsnow
Snowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowbeercheeseands now
Clearly a terminal case of short-timer syndrome.
Short-timer?

You are so invested in getting out of where you are to go
on to the next thing that you are incapable of doing any
real work where you are now.


Oh, short-timer..... I get it. But jeez I sure hope you don't really
know what you're talking about. I've been doing a ton of extra work
where I am now so that I won't be missed so much while I'm gone.

The "so invested" part is certainly on the money though.

Chris
2
3
4


Certainly I don't *know* what I'm talking about. The only thing
I know is what you wrote. You are so excited about getting in
some *real* turns I thought I'd chide you a bit with the short-
timer thing. Yeah, I really do know what it's like to get
everything done before a vacation.

The Real Bev February 15th 07 08:16 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
VtSkier wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:
JQ wrote:

"jimbo" wrote:
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses
the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check
the release torque, you might as well do it your self. I haven't seen
any rental shop that does anything more than set the DIN. In fact, I
haven't seen any retail stores that do anything more. I have seen
only one "expert" shop that used the device I mentioned.

Just my opinion, jimbo

I seen a few places do the binding test at others I haven't because it
was done in a room that you have no access to.
The tool goes in side the boot and has a gauge similar to a torque
wrench but when the boot pops out it hold the reading.

I believe most shops have the tool but generally it is kept out of sight.


It seems like it might not be all that difficult to make your own out of
a shoe tree and a torque wrench.


That is essentially the Vermont Safety Research system.

1) you need to be able to read the torque wrench at the instant
of release. To do this, the VSR wrench has a little plastic
sliding thingy (technical term) that moves with the indicator
and stays put when the indicator pops back to zero. I don't
know if VSR puts the plastic thingy on the wrench or if the
wrench comes that way.


Couldn't you just watch carefully and note the point of release? Doing it
several times ought to clinch the matter.

2) with those two items you can now test lateral release at
the toepiece.

3) to test forward release (more important IMO, because my
ONLY releases in the last 10 years were sticking my skis into
a mogul and having a double eject), you will need a "leg" for
the shoe tree. The torque settings depend on the length of
the "leg" and the leg has to be firmly attached to the boot.

To me this is the larger problem.


Yeah. I'm even having difficulty figuring out where/how to attach the wrench
unless there's a kind of torque wrench that I've never seen (socket sticking
straight out in line with the handle). OTOH, I don't do moguls or ungroomed
and am unlikely to do anything but fall to the side and roll ski-less for a
while.

4) your torque wrench needs to be calibrated in newton-meters
(European standard) not foot-pounds (US standard). Not a
difficult problem, but will avoid a lot of math since the
tables for binding torque values are all listed in Newton-
meters.


http://www.onlineconversion.com/ and
http://www.onlineconversion.com/torque.htm

Is there a difference between "pound foot" and "foot-pound"? And WTF is a
poundal foot?

--
Cheers,
Bev
__________________________________________________ ____
"Parasites plus suckers do not add up to a community."
-- Thomas Sowell

VtSkier February 15th 07 08:36 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
The Real Bev wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:
JQ wrote:

"jimbo" wrote:
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose uses
the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to check
the release torque, you might as well do it your self. I haven't
seen any rental shop that does anything more than set the DIN. In
fact, I haven't seen any retail stores that do anything more. I
have seen only one "expert" shop that used the device I mentioned.

Just my opinion, jimbo

I seen a few places do the binding test at others I haven't because
it was done in a room that you have no access to.
The tool goes in side the boot and has a gauge similar to a torque
wrench but when the boot pops out it hold the reading.

I believe most shops have the tool but generally it is kept out of
sight.

It seems like it might not be all that difficult to make your own out
of a shoe tree and a torque wrench.


That is essentially the Vermont Safety Research system.

1) you need to be able to read the torque wrench at the instant
of release. To do this, the VSR wrench has a little plastic
sliding thingy (technical term) that moves with the indicator
and stays put when the indicator pops back to zero. I don't
know if VSR puts the plastic thingy on the wrench or if the
wrench comes that way.


Couldn't you just watch carefully and note the point of release? Doing
it several times ought to clinch the matter.


You can probably get fairly close, and the torque values
for any given setting are a "range", not a single value.

2) with those two items you can now test lateral release at
the toepiece.

3) to test forward release (more important IMO, because my
ONLY releases in the last 10 years were sticking my skis into
a mogul and having a double eject), you will need a "leg" for
the shoe tree. The torque settings depend on the length of
the "leg" and the leg has to be firmly attached to the boot.

To me this is the larger problem.


Yeah. I'm even having difficulty figuring out where/how to attach the
wrench unless there's a kind of torque wrench that I've never seen
(socket sticking straight out in line with the handle). OTOH, I don't
do moguls or ungroomed and am unlikely to do anything but fall to the
side and roll ski-less for a while.


The "leg" in the VSR system has the 1/2" square hole in the top
of the leg, positioned such that the arm of the wrench is
in line with the "leg". There is a small foot shape at the
bottom of the leg to keep it from rotating. It then has a
cable which goes under the heel of the boot and attaches part
way up the leg to hold everything in place. We used to put
the ski, boot, leg and wrench on the floor with a human foot
on the back of the ski to hold it in place. The whole assembly
is at least 4 1/2 feet tall. Remember that the length of the
"leg" is critical for accurate measurement.

4) your torque wrench needs to be calibrated in newton-meters
(European standard) not foot-pounds (US standard). Not a
difficult problem, but will avoid a lot of math since the
tables for binding torque values are all listed in Newton-
meters.


http://www.onlineconversion.com/ and
http://www.onlineconversion.com/torque.htm


Yeah, I figured a table would be available, but it shouldn't be
too big a deal to get a newton-meter wrench.

Is there a difference between "pound foot" and "foot-pound"? And WTF is
a poundal foot?


Pound-foot is simply more analogous to newton-meter. Pound is the
English notation for weight, which is mass with the force of gravity
working on it. Newton is the metric equivalent, where grams is
ONLY the mass of an object, even though it is use interchangeably
with "weight", it's not weight.

And, of course, foot and meter are the respective system's measure
of length. Force is the unit used to express moving a weight some
distance. If the force is rotational, it's called "torque".

As for "poundal-foot", I'd guess a misspelling or somebody trying
to jargon-ize.

Now, having bought all that, isn't it easier to just go to the
shop and have it done? However you pay for it doesn't matter. I'd
say a case of beer would be good as long as you get something else
for your effort. A case of Long Trail (the local brew) is $18 at
the brewery down the street, a little more in the stores.

Walt February 15th 07 08:58 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
VtSkier wrote:
The Real Bev wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:
JQ wrote:

"jimbo" wrote:
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose
uses the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to
check the release torque, you might as well do it your self. I
haven't seen any rental shop that does anything more than set the
DIN. In fact, I haven't seen any retail stores that do anything
more. I have seen only one "expert" shop that used the device I
mentioned.

Just my opinion, jimbo

I seen a few places do the binding test at others I haven't because
it was done in a room that you have no access to.
The tool goes in side the boot and has a gauge similar to a torque
wrench but when the boot pops out it hold the reading.

I believe most shops have the tool but generally it is kept out of
sight.

It seems like it might not be all that difficult to make your own
out of a shoe tree and a torque wrench.

That is essentially the Vermont Safety Research system.

1) you need to be able to read the torque wrench at the instant
of release. To do this, the VSR wrench has a little plastic
sliding thingy (technical term) that moves with the indicator
and stays put when the indicator pops back to zero. I don't
know if VSR puts the plastic thingy on the wrench or if the
wrench comes that way.


Couldn't you just watch carefully and note the point of release?
Doing it several times ought to clinch the matter.


You can probably get fairly close, and the torque values
for any given setting are a "range", not a single value.

2) with those two items you can now test lateral release at
the toepiece.

3) to test forward release (more important IMO, because my
ONLY releases in the last 10 years were sticking my skis into
a mogul and having a double eject), you will need a "leg" for
the shoe tree. The torque settings depend on the length of
the "leg" and the leg has to be firmly attached to the boot.

To me this is the larger problem.


Yeah. I'm even having difficulty figuring out where/how to attach the
wrench unless there's a kind of torque wrench that I've never seen
(socket sticking straight out in line with the handle). OTOH, I don't
do moguls or ungroomed and am unlikely to do anything but fall to the
side and roll ski-less for a while.


The "leg" in the VSR system has the 1/2" square hole in the top
of the leg, positioned such that the arm of the wrench is
in line with the "leg". There is a small foot shape at the
bottom of the leg to keep it from rotating. It then has a
cable which goes under the heel of the boot and attaches part
way up the leg to hold everything in place. We used to put
the ski, boot, leg and wrench on the floor with a human foot
on the back of the ski to hold it in place. The whole assembly
is at least 4 1/2 feet tall. Remember that the length of the
"leg" is critical for accurate measurement.

4) your torque wrench needs to be calibrated in newton-meters
(European standard) not foot-pounds (US standard). Not a
difficult problem, but will avoid a lot of math since the
tables for binding torque values are all listed in Newton-
meters.


http://www.onlineconversion.com/ and
http://www.onlineconversion.com/torque.htm


Yeah, I figured a table would be available, but it shouldn't be
too big a deal to get a newton-meter wrench.

Is there a difference between "pound foot" and "foot-pound"? And WTF
is a poundal foot?


Pound-foot is simply more analogous to newton-meter. Pound is the
English notation for weight, which is mass with the force of gravity
working on it. Newton is the metric equivalent, where grams is
ONLY the mass of an object, even though it is use interchangeably
with "weight", it's not weight.

And, of course, foot and meter are the respective system's measure
of length. Force is the unit used to express moving a weight some
distance. If the force is rotational, it's called "torque".


Pound is the unit of force in the English system. Weight is the force
that is due to gravity, but it's a force all the same so that's why we
express weight in units of force: i.e. pounds.

Newton is the unit of force in the metric system.

Torque is rotational force, and is expressed as the force times the





As for "poundal-foot", I'd guess a misspelling or somebody trying
to jargon-ize.

Now, having bought all that, isn't it easier to just go to the
shop and have it done? However you pay for it doesn't matter. I'd
say a case of beer would be good as long as you get something else
for your effort. A case of Long Trail (the local brew) is $18 at
the brewery down the street, a little more in the stores.


VtSkier February 15th 07 09:24 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
Walt wrote:
VtSkier wrote:
The Real Bev wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:
JQ wrote:

"jimbo" wrote:
Well, lots of good advice. BUT, unless the "expert" you choose
uses the device that actually pops the boot out of the binding to
check the release torque, you might as well do it your self. I
haven't seen any rental shop that does anything more than set the
DIN. In fact, I haven't seen any retail stores that do anything
more. I have seen only one "expert" shop that used the device I
mentioned.

Just my opinion, jimbo

I seen a few places do the binding test at others I haven't
because it was done in a room that you have no access to.
The tool goes in side the boot and has a gauge similar to a torque
wrench but when the boot pops out it hold the reading.

I believe most shops have the tool but generally it is kept out of
sight.

It seems like it might not be all that difficult to make your own
out of a shoe tree and a torque wrench.

That is essentially the Vermont Safety Research system.

1) you need to be able to read the torque wrench at the instant
of release. To do this, the VSR wrench has a little plastic
sliding thingy (technical term) that moves with the indicator
and stays put when the indicator pops back to zero. I don't
know if VSR puts the plastic thingy on the wrench or if the
wrench comes that way.

Couldn't you just watch carefully and note the point of release?
Doing it several times ought to clinch the matter.


You can probably get fairly close, and the torque values
for any given setting are a "range", not a single value.

2) with those two items you can now test lateral release at
the toepiece.

3) to test forward release (more important IMO, because my
ONLY releases in the last 10 years were sticking my skis into
a mogul and having a double eject), you will need a "leg" for
the shoe tree. The torque settings depend on the length of
the "leg" and the leg has to be firmly attached to the boot.

To me this is the larger problem.

Yeah. I'm even having difficulty figuring out where/how to attach the
wrench unless there's a kind of torque wrench that I've never seen
(socket sticking straight out in line with the handle). OTOH, I
don't do moguls or ungroomed and am unlikely to do anything but fall
to the side and roll ski-less for a while.


The "leg" in the VSR system has the 1/2" square hole in the top
of the leg, positioned such that the arm of the wrench is
in line with the "leg". There is a small foot shape at the
bottom of the leg to keep it from rotating. It then has a
cable which goes under the heel of the boot and attaches part
way up the leg to hold everything in place. We used to put
the ski, boot, leg and wrench on the floor with a human foot
on the back of the ski to hold it in place. The whole assembly
is at least 4 1/2 feet tall. Remember that the length of the
"leg" is critical for accurate measurement.

4) your torque wrench needs to be calibrated in newton-meters
(European standard) not foot-pounds (US standard). Not a
difficult problem, but will avoid a lot of math since the
tables for binding torque values are all listed in Newton-
meters.

http://www.onlineconversion.com/ and
http://www.onlineconversion.com/torque.htm


Yeah, I figured a table would be available, but it shouldn't be
too big a deal to get a newton-meter wrench.

Is there a difference between "pound foot" and "foot-pound"? And WTF
is a poundal foot?


Pound-foot is simply more analogous to newton-meter. Pound is the
English notation for weight, which is mass with the force of gravity
working on it. Newton is the metric equivalent, where grams is
ONLY the mass of an object, even though it is use interchangeably
with "weight", it's not weight.

And, of course, foot and meter are the respective system's measure
of length. Force is the unit used to express moving a weight some
distance. If the force is rotational, it's called "torque".


Pound is the unit of force in the English system. Weight is the force
that is due to gravity, but it's a force all the same so that's why we
express weight in units of force: i.e. pounds.

Newton is the unit of force in the metric system.


Yes, but, generally... Force = Weight
And I realize I got my units wrong.

Torque is rotational force, and is expressed as the force times the


Almost but not quite.
Pound-foot and Newton-meter are measures of WORK which is
the movement of a weight or force over a distance. Then
Torque is rotational WORK.

In this case, a torque wrench operates in a rotational
mode.

As for "poundal-foot", I'd guess a misspelling or somebody trying
to jargon-ize.

Now, having bought all that, isn't it easier to just go to the
shop and have it done? However you pay for it doesn't matter. I'd
say a case of beer would be good as long as you get something else
for your effort. A case of Long Trail (the local brew) is $18 at
the brewery down the street, a little more in the stores.


bumpfreaq February 15th 07 09:55 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
On Feb 15, 11:14 am, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 15, 8:31 am, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 1:31 pm, VtSkier wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 14, 9:20 am, Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Feb 13, 5:24 pm, Walt wrote:
Yeah, like tattoos, haircuts, and appendectomies, you don't want to do
it yourself and you don't want to go to the cheapest guy in town.
Hey, what's wrong with cutting my own hair?
Well, it seems like an unnecessary effort for one.
http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=381229&pid=363620&src=flash_slidet...
//Walt
Hooohooo! To the contrary, it's a necessary effort to cut lots and
lots of my hairs a few times a week in order to maintain that clean
and shiny look.
Chris
3 more days of work
4 more days 'til I'm driving west
5 more days 'til sliding down that slippery slope
And.... it's snowing in CO
SnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowSnowsnowsnowsn owsnowsnowsnowsnowsnow
Snowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowsnowbeercheeseands now
Clearly a terminal case of short-timer syndrome.
Short-timer?
You are so invested in getting out of where you are to go
on to the next thing that you are incapable of doing any
real work where you are now.


Oh, short-timer..... I get it. But jeez I sure hope you don't really
know what you're talking about. I've been doing a ton of extra work
where I am now so that I won't be missed so much while I'm gone.


The "so invested" part is certainly on the money though.


Chris
2
3
4


Certainly I don't *know* what I'm talking about. The only thing
I know is what you wrote. You are so excited about getting in
some *real* turns I thought I'd chide you a bit with the short-
timer thing. Yeah, I really do know what it's like to get
everything done before a vacation.


Yeah, I could probably use the chiding. I'm pretty darn giddy looking
at the snow reports for Winter Park. Too bad I made my first week of
reservations for Summit County. They've been pretty consistently
getting half the new snow that WP has the last couple of weeks. No
matter, I'm sure it will all be good, I'll even bring a pair of firm
snow skis.

Chris


Walt February 15th 07 10:07 PM

Can I set my own bindings?
 
VtSkier wrote:
Walt wrote:

Pound is the unit of force in the English system. Weight is the force
that is due to gravity, but it's a force all the same so that's why we
express weight in units of force: i.e. pounds.

Newton is the unit of force in the metric system.


Yes, but, generally... Force = Weight
And I realize I got my units wrong.


Weight is just one particular kind of force (force due to gravity).
It's a common force, but not the only one. Weight is force. But force
is not necessarily weight.

Torque is rotational force, and is expressed as the force times the


Almost but not quite.
Pound-foot and Newton-meter are measures of WORK which is
the movement of a weight or force over a distance. Then
Torque is rotational WORK.

In this case, a torque wrench operates in a rotational
mode.


BTW, I actually meant to hit Cancel, but hit Send instead. mea culpa.

But, now that I'm in the middle of the argument, torque is force applied
at some distance, hence it has units of force X length (i.e. foot-pounds
or newton-metres)

Work (energy) also has units of force x distance, but to say that torque
is equivalent to work is not quite correct. For instance, if I'm trying
to unscrew a nut, but can't get the &%^$*! thing to move I may be
exerting substantial torque but I'm not doing any work since nothing's
moving.

Torque is not a form of work or energy, although the units are the same.


//Walt


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